Danny Röhl's interview with the German football weekly kicker Sportmagazin

He's got Wednesday under his skin and is, for now, enjoying doing all the work. But is still open about dreams of a return to Germany and the Bundesliga.

The leading German football weekly, kicker Sportmagazin, published an interview with Wednesday manager Danny Röhl yesterday, which you can find here:

https://www.kicker.de/roehl-im-interview-alle-transfers-gehen-ueber-meinen-tisch-998244/artikel

As someone who consider myself fluent in German, as well as in English, I thought I’d put that to some good use for once and translate it - as a Wednesday fan - for the benefit of fellow fans and others who might be interested.

kicker Sportmagazin has ranked as one of the best football publications in Europe for decades and is heralded for its seriousness and lack of sensationalism (as a contrast to the noisy German tabloids, the ‘Boulevard-Presse’, such as Bild). I used to have a subscription for their (then twice weekly) paper edition many years ago. Well-known English football pundit Rafa Honigstein used to be the chief editor.

Anyways, onto the Q & A of the interview. I’ll interject my thoughts on what was said after each answer. If you don’t want that additional noise in your head you can just scroll past it, but reading the interview left me with a number of thoughts I wanted to try and commit to writing. So hopefully you’ll bear with me.

Question 1: The record so far

kicker:

‘Mr Röhl, you took over as manager of Sheffield Wednesday on October 13, 2023. The promoted team had, at that point, just three points and no wins. The record since then in the league is nine wins, two draws and 12 defeats, 23 goals for, 35 goals against and a points per game average of 1.26. Your team is 23rd, second from bottom. How would you characterise the record up to now?’

Röhl:

‘Up until now we’ve made good progress with the squad, especially with regards to playing philosophy and identity. We only managed one win from the first six matches in the Autumn despite markedly improved performances. If you look at only the last 15 matches we’d be 7th with a 1.46 points per game average. So there have been clear improvements made although performances do still vary. We have to keep winning points to reach our goal of survival.’

My comment:

We’d be 8th, not 7th (though joint points total with 7th), and including the last 16, not 15, matches, but the point still stands. Röhl’s Wednesday is a Play-Offs pushing team and, in fact, if you do count those last 16 matches the team in 22nd, Stoke City, would be 11 points behind the 25 we’ve won; a gap just one point fewer than the distance from Röhl’s Wednesday to Leeds in 1st.¹

Incidentally, the average of 1.46 points per game Röhl references (which matches the 22 points won in the last 15 games), would, if we kept it up for the remaining 12 games, see us finish on 50-51 (50.52) points. We don’t need to somehow massively and instantly improve results to survive; insisting on that, when poring too closely over the look of the current league table, heaps unduly pressure onto the team. We don’t need ‘promotion form’, as half of the teams finishing top two since 1992 won 1.82-2.14 points per game; nor do we even need ‘play-off form’ as half of the teams finishing 6th won 1.55-1.63 points per game.²

Röhl’s 1.46 points per game, which is a finish between 8th or 9th most seasons, would more likely than not suffice. And in those last 16 matches we’ve actually won 1.56 points per game (25 points from 16 matches).

Question 2: Playing philosophy

kicker:

'What does your playing philosophy look like?'

Röhl:

‘Due to my past somewhat more complex and affected by Red Bull-ball with a lot of pressing combined with phases of possession, where solutions can be found, like it's being practised by Bayern München. I'm forever trying to perfect that balancing act, but, at the same time, we also have to pick up points too. The chance to finish fourth from bottom is still alive. When I came there weren't a lot of people who would've thought we'd still be in with a shout at this stage of the season.'

My comment:

It’s hard not to read an increasing level of pragmatism about how he approaches football into that answer: That improving how we play - which will increase our likelihood of winning - takes a back seat to winning points with the possibility of surviving still alive.

That pragmatism is perhaps most pronounced in better defensive solidity being prioritised above leading with an attacking threat. Prior to the Bristol City game Röhl referenced how Wednesday had kept a clean sheet in five of the last six halves of football (only conceding against Leicester) and that is now six of the last eight.

Before he was hired he was clear, in interviews from a few years ago, that defensive organisation was probably his strong point as a coach and we may see that coming to the fore more in recent weeks.³

Question 3: The January transfer window

kicker:

'Five players joined in the January window, including one from your youth team, while five players left. Did you strengthen sufficiently?'

Röhl:

‘Yeah, on the whole we strengthened the team. Every coach will always want more new players, but the January window is hard work. And a club in a relegation fight can't get all its first options, and we would've liked to have added one or more players. James Beadle, the goalkeeper that we got from Brighton, has a lot of potential. We'll hear a lot more about this exceptional talent of a player at a significantly higher level in the coming years. Striker Iké Ugbo also helps us and has already scored five times. I promoted Bailey Cadamarteri from the youth team, I registered Marvin Johnson in October after he had been suspended. As well as getting those new players we've also developed both the team and every individual player significantly. A clear focus on youth development is part of the plan because we have the second-oldest team in the division.'

My comment:

The disappointment with the transfer window is still there under the surface, but the gravely voiced and ashen-faced his media appearances towards the end of January thankfully a part of the past now. But he did want better targets and more of them.

It’s interesting to note he says Marvin Johnson had been suspended (‘suspendiert’ in German). Seemingly the issue with Muñoz and/or the club hierarchy ran deeper than him not being registered as part of the squad. Some sort of dust up about the September deadline day loan move to Derby County collapsing?

But most encouraging is how, aside from being very busy with the short term, he’s also clear on the need for youth development moving forwards. And unlike previous managers it’s not just talk; there’s been action too.

Question 4: The job as hands-on manager

kicker:

'What does the job as a manager in the second tier of English football look like?'

Röhl:

'It's about finding solutions in every department. As an example we have two grass pitches, but then we have to react to night frost and a failing undersoil heating. You have everything you need and we can work well on the pitch. Sheffield Wednesday has a very slim structure: It's the chairman, who is also the owner of the club, and then there's me. All decisions are made between the two of us. I'm involved in all transfers, all contract extensions, booking hotels. I have to sign off on it all. This short chain of command is, on the one hand, good to get things done quickly; but it's a lot of work. My very experienced coaching team help me out a lot.'

My comment:

The most unnerving bit of the interview. That is NOT how to run a football club, although I get the feeling Röhl at least liked the idea of total ‘control’ and no middle men and was actively attracted to the prospect of that kind of job in October.

We NEED someone, as a minimum, to be sporting director and do the longer term planning. We cannot, again, be in a situation that everything is thrown up in the air if and when the manager changes. Volatility, and especially willfull volatility, is not conducive to running a successful professional football club in 2024.

Röhl is a generational coaching talent and we’re very lucky to have him (and I can’t remember being as excited about a managerial appointment before). But replacing Dejphon Chansiri’s total control of club decisions, even down to booking hotels, with a total control consistng of only Chansiri and Danny Röhl with both having to sign off on everything, is not how a well-run, professional club should be set up or run.

We’ll see if Röhl transitions more into a sporting director role - focusing more on longer term player development, integration of academy players and, most importantly, recruitment and player trading - if next season starts with him in charge. Despite his clearly monumental, effusive energy I do fear for his health, mental and physical, if he has to be involved in too many decisions that drain his energy from the specific things he’s (very, very) good at.

Fortunately we have, in Chris Powell and Henrik Pedersen, two coaches who in their own right are more than capable as head coaches at this level of football, so I may be seeing problems were there aren’t any, and Röhl is managing his workload and delegating plenty to his five man strong staff.

Question 5: Röhl’s staff

kicker:

'How many are employed on your staff?'

Röhl:

'I brought an assistant manager, two coaches and a goalkeeping coach with me and promoted an additional coach from the academy, so it's a team of five people. I wanted employees with very different profiles, for instance an English-language coach who knew the league and one that could work as a go-between with the academy. The biggest challenge for me was the transfer window. I've not had agents calling me before, nor agreed contracts or searching out players and convincing them to join.'

My comment:

Nothing we didn’t know before - Henrik Pedersen (who I profiled in the Autumn) serves as Röhl’s assistant, Chris Powell and Sascha Lense are regular coaches, while Salvatore Bibbo is the goalkeeping coach and Neil Thompson has a specific role as a link between the first team and academy - the latter an indication that Röhl is clearly intent on utilising the academy more than we have done in recent years, even decades.

He also acknowledges how much of a challenge the January transfer window was for him personally, doing new tasks he hadn’t previously had experience with.

As mentioned earlier Röhl obviously relished (at least originally) taking the many facetted tasks of an English manager (hotel bookings for pete’s sake!). But considering how heavily the extra tasks of the January window clearly weighed on him, perhaps it’s no wonder that it was in the immediate business end of the window he led Wednesday to two very different 4-0 away losses - to promotion hopefuls Southampton and to fellow relegation battlers Huddersfield.

Perhaps his powers were stretched too thin - and perhaps, hopefully, he has learned to delegate more, better and focus on preparing his team as a coach. Both tactically and mentally. Something he is clearly very skilled at - and may turn the brunt of his out-sized working capacity to again now he’s tried ‘a full English’..?

Question 6: Man-management and Hansi Flick

kicker:

'In November 2022 you called [Hansi] Flick your mentor. How much of Flick is there in you?'

Röhl:

'As well as the tactical side of things it's mainly the team leadership of Hansi Flick's that I've taken with me; how he positively reinforces the strengths of players, opently communicate with them and give them feedback. Flick always protected his team. It's the same for me, that the connection with the players is very important, without lowering my high expectations to them, be it on the training pitch or in tactical meetings.'

My comment:

This is a subject Röhl had already, in previous interviews, expanded on and his admiration for Hansi Flick’s man-management skills is definitely intact. It’s also something he references in discussions about players that aren’t getting starts and those un-registered (for now); that he has to see ‘the whole human’. Perhaps the quality in Danny Röhl that I admire and adore the most. Something you can also notice in how he shakes the hand and gives a consoling pat on the shoulder of injured opponents exiting the pitch.

This guy isn’t just some Stats Twat (like yours truly), who could recite a tactics manual. He marries that big brain to a big, beating heart. And the players are clearly responding to it too.

Question 7: Wednesday’s identity

kicker:

'Sheffield Wednesday, founded September 4 1867, is one of the oldest still existing football clubs in the world, a founder member of the Football Association and the Premier League as well as the first winner of the FA Cup [sic]. Four league championship, the last one in 1930. In 2000 relegation to the second tier and then twice in the third tier. 2023 a return to the EFL Championship, the second tier. What kind of self-image is prevalent at the promotee?'

Röhl:

'We play our home games in front of an average of 25,000 crowds as well as 4,000 following us for away games. The support is extraordinary and outstanding. With the potential of the fans and the club's charisma Sheffield Wednesday could become a Premier League club again. But you have to invest a lot for that to happen, and not just money, but also focusing on the identity. We've now taken steps in that direction. This summer we have to adjust the nuts and bolts just right as 20 contracts are expiring. So a lot has to be done right in building the squad. With its history and tradition it's a very special club. Even groundsmen at away grounds come up to me at away games and tell me they're Wednesday fans. Football fans in Germany also associate Sheffield Wednesday with a certain history.'

My comment:

I know this may just be the performative art of the modern soap opera that is modern, professional football (as per this interesting column of Jonathan Wilson's) - the badge-thumping of the goal-scoring mercenary - but even the most hard-nosed cynic will be a bit wobbly around the edges reading that. It feels like he gets us as a club and that in a way that I don’t think will ever be possible for the owner. But it doesn’t feel like just platitudes - like a ‘massive’ adjective in a new signing video - but like a man who feels he has a mission and is itching to realise the potential at this ‘very special club’ of ours.

It’s interesting that he segues straight from the ‘club’s charisma’ to investing ‘not just money’ but ‘focusing on the identity’. Something I and many others in the past have called ‘culture’. This was were Darren Moore had his main forté - culture-creation - and Röhl clearly realises that, to butcher a tired saying, culture eats (tactical) organisation for lunch.

I’d say it also means the objective could impact the type of players we aim to recruit in a Summer that, from Röhl’s comments, sounds like involving yet another significant squad overhaul. It reminds me of this description of the All Blacks and their ‘No Dickheads’ policy. Collective above all - and ‘adjusting nuts and bolts’ to increase the sum that collective can derive from its shrewdly recruited parts.

Question 8: The high status of the Championship

kicker:

'If we were to compare the level of play in England and Germany, which position would your team be in in the 2. Bundesliga in Germany?'

Röhl:

'To me the Championship is the best division in Europe behind the Big Five. There are a lot of top players playing at a high level here. If you compare the market value of top teams in the 2. Bundesliga with the Championship then Hamburger SV, with around 50 million Euro, would be 16th in the Championship. The total market value in the Championship comes to 1.7 billion Euro - it's a whole other level. Our squad's is only around 20 million Euro.'

My comment:

This is very interesting assertion - but also one that, between the lines, tries to underline just how much of an underdog we actually are at this level. Despite being ‘the famous Sheffield Wednesday’.

Question 9: Transitioning to being the main man(ager)

kicker:

'You've worked a a video analyst and as an assistant at RB Leipzig, Southampton, Bayern München and the Germany national team. Now you have the main responsibility. How does your career plan look from here?'

Röhl:

'I'm very satisfied at the moment to be an English style manager and having those kinds of tasks, after around ten years in different roles. I go into work every day with a smile on my face despite our challenging position in the table. I feel an enormous amount of positive energy; it's quite simply a lot of fun. I've still got a very confidential relationship with Hansi Flick and we have regular discussions. But my focus is entirely on my own development as a head coach.'

My comment:

Such an infectious energy. He wants us and he is desperate to make us better - and he’s actually having fun doing so. Dare I say it also shows in how the players express themselves playing as a team on match days; that they’re enjoying their football and enjoying playing for Röhl and for each other? It’s a very basic prerequisite for success in team sports, especially so when, results wise, backs are against the wall, but it’s not easily attainable. Especially with what had gone before. And if Flick was to be in a job again soon, it doesn’t sound like we should fear Röhl being lured away for another gig as assistant. Reassuring.

Question 10: Future unknown

kicker:

'Are you going to stay at Sheffield Wednesday regardless of your divisional status?'

Röhl:

'Until May 5 and at the moment I'm fully focused on current season, so it ends the way we want to. Then we'll sit down and assess the situation.'

Less reassuring. But not surprising. Like our children, these gifted football people are only ours to borrow for a while I guess! It’s perhaps the most ‘stock answer’ of the interview. I’m actually happy that it does sound - which may well just be me reading my own wishes into his answers - like he’ll not just stay under any circumstances. Hopefully demands are made of the owner. And demands that do not end in an outcome as acrimonious, deflating and downright infuriating as the cringingly embarrassing soap opera that was last Summer’s dismissal of Darren Moore!

Question 11: Future in Germany

kicker:

'Could you imagine returning to the Bundesliga?'

Röhl:

'Of course, the Bundesliga is one of the best leagues in the world. As a German coach it's always something special working in your own country at the highest level. As a kid you're always dreaming of the Bundesliga.'

My comment:

Again not surprising even if it leaves a bit of a knot in the stomach. ‘Probably the best manager I’ve had in my career’ (Barry Bannan), ‘the best coach I’ve ever had by far’ (Josh Windass) and ‘he’s another level. He’ll go on’ (Windass again). This is a man who has been head coach for 136 days - and Bannan and Windass aren’t exactly known as being easy to impress.

Considering the risk that big German clubs are willing to take with appointments you can definitely see why Röhl is salivating at the prospect of managing in the Bundesliga. He’s cut his teeth as a manager now, which will have reassured him that he has got a lot and most of the tools necessary, and that they’re sharp.

Bayer Leverkusen after Xabi Alonso leaves for Bayern or Liverpool in the Summer..? Pie in the sky, of course - but so was resuscetating this behemoth of a battered and depressed ageing football club of ours when he joined 4½ months ago.

I agree, Josh Windass. He’ll go on. Hopefully with us at Wednesday!

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The Championship table if only matches from December onwards counted:

1

2

The Championship points per game averages of teams finishing 1st to 24th from the 1992-1993 season onwards with 25th, 50th (median) and 75th percentiles indicated:

3. https://x.com/ploehmann/status/1709852855153074323?s=20 from this Twitter thread I did on October 5: https://x.com/ploehmann/status/1709852841760735546?s=20